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TOPIC: Tuesday at 5:30

Tuesday at 5:30 2 years 1 month ago #28860

  • poyssick
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Vance Tice, me, and a host of patriots fighting to keep the UN off our waters will be facing up with two of the nation's leading globalists in the world of fishing management.

Join us at 5:30 pm to take about sector separation. With two men who are really convinced they are our intellectual superiors. They are not.

Hilton hotel
Lois Avenue
Tampa, Florida
JOIN CCA if you take our sport and our environment seriously...
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Re: Tuesday at 5:30 2 years 1 month ago #28865

  • Eggsuckindog
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I may or may not be there but hope too - point I just thought of

If a duel license holder uses commercial shares for a CFH boat does that then count against the REC TAC?

or if a CHF buys a share from a commercial
Any way you measure it - dumbass is expensive
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Re: Tuesday at 5:30 2 years 1 month ago #28893

  • Jack Hexter
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Gary

Looks like you are going to be at the "informal" session. What about putting it on the official record on Wednesday at 2:15 till ...
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Re: Tuesday at 5:30 2 years 1 month ago #28934

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Jack, I just spoke to Gary and he said he will.
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Re: Tuesday at 5:30 2 years 1 month ago #28937

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This is a blockbuster item just listed on another site by Gary Coleechio

EDF Progress Report - circa 2010
Via Mark W.

Environmental Defense Fund Progress Report

Catch shares are the default tool for managing fisheries in the Gulf of Mexico region

Over the past year, EDF has helped propel the commercial grouper/tilefish IFQ plan toward implementation, advanced the goal of catch share management for king mackerel and all remaining Gulf reef fish species, helped create essential management building blocks for catch shares in the for-hire sport fishing sector, and continued to support the nation's first industry alliance dedicated to promoting catch shares.

With the vital help of our industry partnerships, we recently ushered the grouper/tilefish IFQ plan to final passage by the Gulf Council in January (13-4 vote in favor). The Secretary of Commerce approved the plan in August and it is set to begin on January 1, 2010. However, higher than expected interactions with threatened sea turtles added a wrinkle to the program. In May, NMFS implemented an emergency closure of the longline reef fishery (of which the grouper/tilefish fishery is a part) to help resolve the problem. To keep fishermen on the water, we targeted converting 50 percent of the fleet, or approximately 50 vessels, to vertical, or ‘bandit’ gear, which has been proven to cause far fewer turtle interactions. EDF immediately launched a grant program for conversion of longline vessels to the vertical gear. To date, applications have been approved to convert 50 vessels, and 45 have converted. Offering the industry an option for staying in business has gone a long way to solidify relationships and trust with both fishermen and regulators.
Our work to promote catch share management for all Gulf reef fish continues to bear fruit. In June, at our urging, the Gulf Council established a new advisory panel to explore a catch share plan for all remaining reef fish, including three subgroups: commercial, recreational for-hire and private anglers. EDF and key allies have secured voting positions on the panel. We expect that the commercial sub-group will easily move forward with a plan to add all remaining reef fish (19 more species in total, including amberjack and gray triggerfish) into the existing IFQ program. The for-hire and private angler sub-groups will explore catch share and accountability measures for reef fish, including red snapper and grouper. The recreational discussions will undoubtedly be long, heated and challenging. Part of their charge is to discuss intersector trading.
The work we are doing with a core group of for-hire recreational fishermen, whose movement we helped develop and continue to support, called SOS (Save Our Sector), will be important to continue to move catch shares forward in the for-hire sector of the recreational red snapper fishery. SOS now has over 200 supporters across all five Gulf states. This membership, which includes boat owners and crew members, reflects a significant portion of the 1,100 licenses in the for-hire fleet. The group’s work was a key factor in the Gulf Council’s October decision to consider separation of the recreational sector into for-hire and private angler sectors in the generic Annual Catch Limit/Accountability Measures amendment, which will be subject to public hearings in either December or January and likely voted on next summer. The amendment will form the foundation for a for-hire IFQ and harvest tags for private anglers.
To demonstrate that vessel monitoring systems and electronic logbooks can work in for-hire recreational fisheries and provide the accountability necessary for catch shares, EDF is conducting a two-year pilot project with SOS. Internal discussions with NMFS officials indicate strong agency support for the SOS management plan, which includes use of electronic logbooks, and is resulting in meetings and dialogue among the group, NMFS officials and key members of Congress. While working with key for-hire leadership to develop an IFQ concept design for-hire catch share, we funded and worked with SOS leadership to launch an SOS web site to serve as a consistent source of information for interested parties.
After almost three years, the red snapper IFQ program continues to meet high expectations. In NMFS’s recent “2008 Gulf of Mexico Red Snapper IFQ Annual Report” the agency states, “… overall, [there are] numerous improvements over the historical derby-style fishing conditions…” Overfishing is being reversed because fishermen are complying with the catch limit, the ratio of discards to landings has dropped by 68 percent, and illegal fishing is declining. The economic signs are also positive. NMFS documents dockside prices at 17 percent higher than pre-IFQ, while fishermen report an increase of 30 percent or more (some data collection problems are not yet fixed). Quota share prices rose by 37 percent from 2007 to 2008, reflecting the scarcity of red snapper and fishermen’s optimism for the future. The number of shareholders has declined by about 15 percent and a few vessels have exited the fishery, indicating that excess capacity is beginning to fall. There continues to be broad support for the program which is contributing to the expansion of catch shares to other Gulf and South Atlantic, fisheries.
Of course, on-going improvements are needed; high priorities include additional at-sea monitoring, better economic data, and enhanced systems to detect and deter cheating. Fishermen, with new conservation incentives under IFQs, are working to combat one of the remaining discarding problems by seeking to accumulate a “snapper bycatch pool.” The pool would consist of a small reserve of quota that fishermen may access if they happen to catch red snapper beyond their quota, for example, while fishing for other reef fish. This will help take away the misguided justification (e.g., that a fisherman cannot find snapper shares) that a few fishermen still make for discarding snapper. The biggest threat to the continued success of the red snapper IFQ (and other Gulf IFQs) is the inability of regulators thus far to address overfishing by the recreational sector. This problem slows down stock rebuilding and could potentially diminish the positive conservation incentives instilled by catch shares.

Our partner, University of British Columbia, has developed recommendations and is continuing to work with NMFS to better track reductions in red snapper bycatch under IFQ management, information that is critical for measuring success. They are also participating in a red snapper stock assessment update to ensure future annual catch limits are based on the best science. As we expected, NMFS’s recent report (see above) shows a significant improvement over the first year report, but we are working for a much more rigorous and comprehensive report in 2010. These reports are important because they will be used in NMFS’s and the Council’s planned five-year review in 2012. Another project partner, Texas Tech, has started its on-the-water research that will help identify habitat for red snapper spawners so that it can be protected to complement IFQs and speed recovery of the badly overfished stock.
EDF continues to encourage and support fishermen who provide the leadership to advance catch shares. The Gulf of Mexico Reef Fish Shareholders' Alliance, which we helped create, continues to expand its membership of commercial and for-hire fishermen. Its executive director and members are serving on federal advisory panels, have met with members of Congress, and are engaged in helping guide other EDF Oceans regions through challenges. The Alliance is working with Chicago’s Shedd Aquarium “Rite Bite” program and others to move red snapper off of environmentalists’ “fish to avoid” lists by featuring red snapper in eco-friendly restaurants. The program has also received funding and approval to initiate a pre-certification process for Marine Stewardship Council certification.
Finally, EDF has successfully urged the Gulf Council to establish an advisory panel to explore catch share management for the king mackerel fishery. King mackerel is jointly managed by the Gulf, South Atlantic and Mid-Atlantic Councils. If completed, this will be the first-ever catch share for a coastal pelagic species.
Any way you measure it - dumbass is expensive
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Re: Tuesday at 5:30 2 years 1 month ago #28943

  • CaptJack_1
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Just curious as to how this is a "blockbuster item" when it was published more than two years ago?

Don't misunderstand, it IS IMPORTANT, but we have known about it and this is why plans have been in the works by all the major fisheries organizations to stop the preservationist takeover of our, yes, OUR fisheries.
Pork chops, feral dogs....you know where this is going, lol....
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Re: Tuesday at 5:30 2 years 1 month ago #28944

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I follow along pretty good and have never seen it, I was at the workshop in Tampa when it was first discussed and sat thru all the stupid focus groups. So if I haven'e seen it I will presume many more haven't either.

They didn't publish this in the Trib, how long ago did you read it?? forgot - I guess if your an SOS guide you would have seen it, hadn't thought of that
Any way you measure it - dumbass is expensive
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Re: Tuesday at 5:30 2 years 1 month ago #28954

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sorry if I offended. I first saw EDF proposals in 2004/5 when I still lived in NY and served on numerous Mid Atlantic Council Advisory Committees. I first got involved with the catch share/ ITQ/ rec split, etc fiasco, again, in NY in the same time frame. When I moved down here "full-time" in 2007, I vowed I would not get involved in fisheries management issues.
I honestly believed that Florida had a much better understanding of fish stocks, habitat, etc.
I still think that, overall, FWC has a much better grasp of the situation than any other saltwater based state.
That being said, problem is with the Federal Government agencies and all the PEW -backed administrators appointed by the current administration.

Is conservation necessary, YES. Preservation, not so much!

Sector separation of the recreational sector into for-hire and private angler sectors , I don't think so...and a member of SOS, no way.

Way back when, 2002 or 2003, I attended a Gulf Fisheries Council meeting in Mobile, Alabama to get an answer to this question. "What quota does a recreationally caught fish taken on a charter boat then sold get counted against?" Never got my answer but my point was if a fish is "sold" is that not "in commerce?", therefore commercial?
Pork chops, feral dogs....you know where this is going, lol....
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Re: Tuesday at 5:30 2 years 1 month ago #28974

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Your assumption on the FWC and Mr Barron is very off target - I was at the workshop and he "is" one of their allies - see FS Conservation for better info than me

There was almost a fight at that workshop and I would have Gary C, Gary P or Dennis's back in all of it - actually I left minutes before, I probably would have been an instagator, been known to happen

BTW - I checked,nobody that is anybody had seen this document in print - regardless of the date - not that we didn't suspect the same
but it had never been laid out as such- just say'in

Ask Gary P here if he could unequivically state that Capt Jarvis was being paid by EDF and I bet he would say no - so it is blockbuster
Any way you measure it - dumbass is expensive
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Re: Tuesday at 5:30 2 years 1 month ago #29077

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RHey guys.

I put that up on ThePoliticalSandbox,blogspot.com about 18 months ago. A lot of stuff comes from Tom Hilton, he is an incredible resource in discovering the truth.

I have it and about fifty other similar documents I am about to make public. Now that the entire state of Alabama has made cooperation with UN agenda 21 a felony under state law, people like me can begin to show the world stuff that has had us vilified for even mentioning. The truth is coming out. When Gary and I started talking about this two years ago people sent me tin foil in the mail. And hats to use as shape templates, so I could make my own.

There is one protein that is not on the chicago mercantile. That is fish protein.

The only way to move this incredible vast and global resource into the hands of the already wealthy? Into the hands of the top one-tenth of that top 1% they are bitching about in the hippy-infected parks?

Allocate it. Measure it.

So what happens?

The worldwide environmental movement sees a way to make literally billions of hundreds of billions of dollars, by scaring people into believing that the world's fish were disappearing at a frightening rate. And forming councils of political appointees to manage our fish. Eight of them. And man, do vast funds move around those councils. I watched them five away five five-hundred dollar clocks last night as thanks, while the chairman wore a crown. You think I am kidding? It was a cardboard crown, but the power those councils yield over our lives and over the lives of many thousands of family is more like steel then it is cardboard.

The councils intend to count them, and sell the rights to catch them back to their friends. Their rich environmentalist friends are buying up the rights to catch fish like they were Krugerands.

Catch shares, anyone? Sector separation is the first step on the road to catch shares

What the Feds are doing - with the help of EDF, pew, and a host of other Greenies - is preparing to institute plans to sell us the fish we now catch by license - to us before we go out to catch them. You will have to go to Walmart, buy a grouper ticket for ten pounds or fifty or whatever you want before you catch them.
JOIN CCA if you take our sport and our environment seriously...
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